How many have called for the decriminalization of marijuana? Supposedly it doesn’t harm anyone else. Even President Obama repeatedly promised to stop federal interference with state laws that allow the medical use of marijuana. The writer is reminded of a comment by Connecticut editorialist Joe Bell saying that the legalization of drugs was reminiscent of how the subject can make otherwise solid thinkers turn into intellectual oatmeal.
So many have claimed that what one does to himself without any harm to anyone else is his business only. If you have any close relatives, if you go to school, if you work in a job that involves others, if you have a spouse and/or children, neighbors, or if you drive on roads, you directly effect others. That involves others 99.4% of the time. If you happen to be driving down the road and you become distracted or psychotic and hit me, or worse–my wife or daughter–you are an eminent hazard.
In Brent Bozell : “Weeds” and Marijuana Chic – Townhall.com, he points out that in the 2006 Nation Survey on Drug Use and Health, there were 14.8 million current users of “pot”, and 4.2 million Americans who were classified as dependent or abusers of marijuana. The same 2006 survey also found that 16.1% of hospital drug treatment admissions were for marijuana, which was the primary drug of abuse.
From George Will : Dose of Realism in a Drug War – Townhall.com, it seems obvious that Gil Kerlikowshe, Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, realized the difficulties with drugs in America–especially marijuana. Asked about marijuana being a “gateway” drug he responded guardedly, “You don’t find many heroin users who didn’t start with marijuana”. The cannabis smoked today, referred to as “skunk” (or AK-47, White Widow, Armageddon), is readily accessible online.
Statistics from the National Treatment Agency (UK), revealed number of under-18 year olds who sought drug treatment for addiction to marijuana almost doubled in a years time–from 5,000 in 2005 to 9,600 in 2006. Over 13,000 adults also sought similar treatment for addition. But that was 4 years ago. In “Pot Is More Dangerous than LSD or Heroine” – Liberal UK Newspaper …, as well as the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, it was documented how the weed in circulation that the “baby-boomers” smoked in college was typically 2-3% tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). Now, the active ingredient of THC is 20-30% of the existing cannabis.
More importantly, a Study: Even Infrequent Use of Marijuana Increases Risk of … psychosis by 40%, was conducted. Alarmingly from Britain is hard data with emergency-room admissions involving cannabis are rising. Robin Murray (professor of Psychiatry at London’s Institute of Psychiatry) says that, in his estimation, at least 25,000 of the 250,000 schizophrenics in in the UK could have avoided the affliction if they had not used cannabis. “Psychosis” is defined by the dictionary as: “Any severe form of mental disturbance or disease which may also be associated with physical disease, and which produces deep and far reaching disruption of normal behavior and social functioning.”
Medical Reseach Council (Professor Colin Blakemore) admitted, “The link between cannabis and psychosis is quite clear now; it wasn’t 10 years ago.” Antonio Maria Costa (UN Office on Drugs and Crime) said “Evidence of the damage to mental health caused by cannabis use–from loss of concentration to paranoia, aggressiveness and outright psychosis–is mounting and cannot be ignored.” Confirming, but alarming data from a 2005 study at New Zealand’s University of Otaga revealed that marijuana smoking can raise the risk of mental illness by 50%.
Jonathon Owen (Independent/ England) had previously campaigned for the legalization of ‘pot’. Now, with the recent available medical data, he admits that key elements of their decriminalization efforts were flawed. A Canadian Supreme Court declared it within the government’s jurisdiction to outlaw its use [So how dangerous is skunk? - Health News, Health & Families - The ...]. Canadian Director Derek Rogusky (Focus on the Family) showed how decriminalization of marijuana actually led to greater use (see above link on “pot is more dangerous”).
In the Netherlands, decriminalization was accompanied by large increases in the numbers of users. Just between 1984 and 1992, student increases in the use of marijuana was 250%. Interesting, he also found out that young people who use marijuana are 85x more likely to begin using cocaine than teens who never tried ‘pot’. Mexican President Vincente Fox reversed his decision to decriminalize marijuana as can be seen in http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/may/06050402.html.
The Office of National Drug Control Policy (White House) admitted that a teenager who was depressed in the last year was twice as likely to have used marijuana than teenagers who did not report being depressed (25% to 12%) [Office of National Drug Control Policy - Juveniles & Drugs: Facts ...]. Depression at some time is a fact of life for most teenagers sometime during the year. And they’re the ones calling for decriminalization .
Alcohol may be risky at high levels, but knowing the number of drinks you’ve had, what your alcohol tolerance is, or simply taking a breathlyzer test to make sure you’re under 0.8 % alcohol in the bloodstream can keep one within the lawful limit. For marijuana, one doesn’t know his tolerance, there are no legal limits of detectability, one normally drives almost everywhere, no one knows the actual potency of any cannabis plant nor do they know what the future potency may be, and one rarely knows if they can become psychotic, or at what level the symptoms my raise their ugly head.
In fact it’s a good bet that if you’ve ever smoked cannabis before, you’ll probably do it again. And the writer would somehow be foolish enough to give his OK for you to smoke marijuana before or during driving around his wife or children? Maybe when pigs fly.
55 Responses
This article is proof that” refeer madness” is still alive. Wonder how they will feel, once they realize they have been a tool. Legalize all forms of cannabis. The insanity has to stop!
Posted on January 18th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
Three weeks after my son told me he was smoking marijuana he was dead. I found out later that someone had also dropped LSD into his drink at a party. BUT – he specified marijuana when he talked with me. He was not himself. As I read this it was like he was back sharing his depression. He came home during the holidays, got the shotgun, went into the woods next to our house, and shot his brains into a tree. This young man was so beautiful – 6′4″ tall, handsome, brilliant (he was in his third year of college and only 19 years old). What a loss! Four months after his death I wrote a booklet titled GRIEF that is available on Internet, RealityCheck.org and elsewhere.
Every time I read of efforts to legalize marijuana I get a sick feeling. No, no, no! Never, please!
Posted on January 18th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
If you want use to decline, then why don’t you follow the example of countries which have adopted policies that actually reduced drug use – Portugal and Amsterdam come to mind (both of which have lower rates of drug abuse than America).
Posted on January 18th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
Patricia,
I definitely feel for your loss. I’m sorry the column brought you back to a place you did not want to be. I will have to search the net for “GRIEF”.
Keep up the fight! You will likely see your son again after your mortal death.
It’s amazing how much people don’t know about marijuana…
Posted on January 18th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
You stats are all wrong first off in amsterdam has gone down. Why whouldnt you want marijuna legal? So kids can keep trying weed for the first time beacuse its NOT regulated. When i was about 14 it was ALWAYS easier to get marijuana over booze simply beacuse marijuna is NOT regulated.
No one wants kids smoking pot this is universal but with current laws that create a black market of people that dont care who the sell to, then they will.
Rember making marijuana legal is about Regulating it so that KIDS DONT TRY IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Posted on January 18th, 2010 at 8:22 pm
Patricia, Neither Marijuana, Alcohol, nor LSD killed your son. Depression and hoplelessness did. Obviously he was going through a rough patch in his life and did not reach out to the people who loved him the most in order to find a way out of his misery. Please do not blame a recreational drug for your son’s suicide. It misinforms those who have loved ones dealing with severe depression and who may be suicidal. It seems more likely to me that he was abusing substances as a way to ’self-medicate’. That is to say, that instead of seeking real substantial help for his emotional and psychological problems he chose to bury himself in escapism until he reached a point where he felt he could no longer numb his feelings.
I would also recommend that you seek grief counseling as it seems you still have not come to terms with the real, and hard to face, reasons that your son took his own life.
my prayers are with your family.
Posted on January 18th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
Your argument in favor of prohibition is based primarily off of false premises from misleading studies.
1.) You’ve mentioned the “gateway drug” theory a few times in your argument. This theory came from a study in which interviews were done with hard-drug users where many of these users smoked pot before doing hard drugs. What proponents of the gateway drug theory fail to acknowledge is that nearly all of these hard-drug users also drank alcohol and/or smoked tobacco along with marijuana before moving on to harder substances. So who’s to say that alcohol and/or tobacco isn’t guilty of being a “gateway substance” as well, if any of them?
2.) Next, you write that the number of under-18 year olds who sought marijuana addiction help doubled from 2005-2006. If you knew more about this (or maybe you do) you would know that teenagers who are caught with possession are sent to court and most of the time are given a choice by the judge. Choice #1: Goto juvenile hall for X months OR Choice #2: Goto a rehab center. Now which choice do you think most of these kids would pick, a prison like institution or just rehab? So it’s not that these kids are actually seeking help for an addiction, it’s just that they are being forced to in order to avoid receiving a much harsher sentence. Also, marijuana is not physically addicting in the way that nicotine is, in that when a heavy pot-smoker stops smoking suddenly they do not experience any withdrawal symptoms. You can say that a pothead is addicted to pot in the same way that a fat guy is addicted to cake, or TV, or any other pleasurable thing/activity.
3.) Then you mention the dreaded THC chemical in pot. It’s may be true that marijuana is a bit more potent in these times but is that really such a bad thing? First, your 20-30% estimate of the THC content is a gross exaggeration, but either way THC has been shown to have more positive effects than negative, (IF any negative effects). The smoking of cannabis requires inhaling which brings smoke and tar into your lungs. This is similar to smoking tobacco and it’s common knowledge that this is an unhealthy thing to do. With a higher potency, pot-smokers smoke less to receive the desired effect and therefore are less likely to develop lung-related problems that many tobacco smokers develop. However, the most significant difference between marijuana smoke and tobacco smoke is that marijuana smoke does NOT cause cancer. There’s never been a single case where someone was diagnosed with cancer from marijuana smoke alone, and it is believed that it’s this THC chemical that prevents cancer from occurring. When eating marijuana through baked goods, tea, or other means than smoking to absorb THC into the body, there is no negative long-term consequences. So do you really think that THC is as bad as you are suggesting?
4.) Your suggestion of alcohol being safer than marijuana is astounding. Yes, there’s always going to be people making the wrong choices and choosing to drive while high. You seemed to emphasize this point quite a bit actually. Is there a reason why you didn’t provide statistics comparing alcohol related accidents with marijuana related accidents? I’m sure you would have included them if they supported your viewpoint, but sadly they don’t. Aside from that, no one can die from overdose of marijuana, there’s no long-term negative effects and it is not physically addicting. None of these can be said about alcohol.
Now to anyone that reads this and has an interest in the issue, I strongly recommend you do your own research on the effects of marijuana before you vote on any issue related to it. If you have any doubts of the points I’ve made, or just want to confirm them then I encourage you to take time to verify them. We are living in the information age where access to good and reliable information is a luxury that people during the Nixon, Reagan, Bush era were not able to enjoy.
Moderator’s note: And also during the Kennedy, Johnson, Carter and Clinton years as well!
Posted on January 18th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
Patricia, I am very sorry for the loss of your son. I hope that you won’t take my contrary position about legalization as a personal affront.
The fact is that alcohol in excessive amounts can kill you by shutting down the brain stem. This happens about 1200 times a year in the US. Some uncounted number of deaths are related to aspiration of vomit occasioned by alcohol excess.
Cannabinoid receptors are not present in the brain stem, hence it cannot shut down basal functions. This is why it is literally impossible to overdose on cannabis. To deny this is to give in to the postmodernism philosophy, which says that facts are whatever is convenient to your position.
If you believe in empiricism and reality, you must accept that alcohol in excess can kill acutely while cannabis cannot. So in one undeniable aspect (i.e. immediate death), alcohol is far, far riskier.
Needless to say, if you didn’t bother to point out this basic fact, then the remainder of the column is suspect. To wit:
- Vicente Fox called for legalization of cannabis, or at least a serious discussion of such, in 2009. It’s an easily googlable fact. Several other Latin American leaders have called for legalization too. So you’re just plain wrong.
- Experienced marijuana users certainly know their limits. Anyone with a fair amount of experience has been “overstoned” and finds it unpleasant. Self-titration is a well-documented phenomenon and, incidentally, is the reason that high-THC cannabis is not especially worrisome and probably even beneficial since one may smoke less to the same desired effect.
- There are no “legal limits of detectability”, whatever that may mean, because it is illegal to have any whatsoever. To say there was an acceptable limit above zero would seem to negate prohibition. This is just another instance of the fact that you can’t regulate what you prohibit.
- As for not knowing the potency of pot bought on the current black market, that is not entirely true. Almost anybody can tell the difference between low-potency Mexican weed and high-grade as a crude measure. But for sure your average pot seller doesn’t have any strict THC content testing available. Of course, testing for concentration is technically very possible (or else the government couldn’t tell you how much stronger the stuff supposedly is nowadays). It’s just that no one tests because we have an unregulated black market. So far as I know, there was no alcohol content on black market Prohibition liquor either.
- One normally drives everywhere. Maybe you do. I take the bus and bike. Or a taxi if I drink. Or I can always opt to stay home.
- One rarely knows when one might become psychotic? I assume you meant when one smokes weed. Well, anyone who’s done so for ten years and has escaped The Shining might feel on solid ground to assume continued sanity.
Lastly, it seems as if people supporting continued cannabis prohibition rarely can discuss any of the implications of the policy beyond alleged health effects or its supposed immorality. Just to bring a few of these to your readership’s attention, cannabis prohibition leads to:
- Police corruption through the availability of easy money.
- Murder and violence through black market operators settling extralegal arguments. The level of violence in Mexico is now truly epic, by the way.
- Subversion of our foreign policy in service of the impossible goal of eliminating cannabis from society.
- Destruction of our national forests by people planting clandestine cannabis crops.
- Incarceration rates far above those of any country we’d like to call our peer (unless you want to be compared to Burma).
- Disproportionate racial arrest and incarceration, which has poisoned relations between police and minority communities.
The good news is that your opinions are rapidly fading in popularity. I’m sure this will cause much teeth gnashing in some quarters, but rest assured it will all occur piecemeal and state by state. This means that there will be experimentation with different control regimes and adequate time to study what works and what doesn’t.
Remember, this great nation survived the legality of cannabis from 1776-1937, and we can do it again!
Posted on January 18th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
Wow. All I can say is wow. You can tell this “Kevin Roeten” guy has never smoked pot, because all of this is bull. First of all everything in the second to last paragraph comparing alcohol and pot, everything about weed is false. You do build up a tolerance, and you can judge how high you can get. There’s a culture surrounding marijuana as much as there is surrounding alcohol; we know what good pot looks, smells, and feels like, the same way a drinker would determine the quality of his scotch or bourbon. Actually, if it were legalized, it’d be EVEN EASIER for us to determine how potent it is by selling it and putting the THC content on the bag!
This is the only issue with this article I’m going to bring up, because I don’t have time to say how wrong the rest is. I charge you all to watch the movie “The Union,” a documentary on why it’s ridiculous that pot is still illegal (it’s not some Michael Moore shit, so watch it). And finally, I leave you all with one terrifying statistic:
No one has ever died from smoking too much weed. And sorry Patricia, but LSD is a whole different ballgame. Of course he specified marijuana on the phone! He probably had no idea his drink had LSD in it! He wasn’t himself because it’s a psychedelic drug! Weed just makes you feel good!
Posted on January 18th, 2010 at 9:56 pm
I’ll never know how you feel Patricia. However, I feel that it is unfair to the people who smoke marijuana for years and even decades and have no problems whatsoever from using it. Especially considering alcohol causes exponentially more suicides and problems in general than marijuana use. That is a fact, and it may be hard for some people to accept.
Posted on January 18th, 2010 at 10:22 pm
I certainly sympathize for your loss Patricia, but marijuana was not what killed your son. Depression affects so many individuals, not just those who have tried marijuana. Marijuana can bring an escape from suffering of so many patients who have are in dire need of an alternate means to cope with their ailment. I certainly do not want children under 21 to use cannabis but the scary thing is, if your child so chooses to pursuit the means to get it, they are going to do so. And when they do so, they are going to go to a drug who might and probably will push that child onto doing other, stronger drugs. In a regulated model, it would allow guidelines for the THC levels and the pesticides used, ensure that only adults above the age of 21 is able to obtain it. Cannabis can not be eradicated. It will continue to be sold by drug cartels instead of local farmers, being untaxed and fueling a violent drug war. States are in deep debts to fight an unwinable war while they over crowd their jails and prisons with otherwise law obiding citizens. I just ask that you look at the bigger picture on the subject of marijuana legalization. Do your research. Look at the life of Rachel Hoffman and ask yourself is this war on a God given plant worth it.
Just some food for thought.
Posted on January 18th, 2010 at 10:39 pm
Sorry about your kid’s LSD overdose (?), but what the heck does that have to do with jailing my parents or my kids for pot? No, I refuse to go along with jailing people for cannabis. It is just a plant. It is not the devil. I have family who were killed by sleepy drivers, amphetamine drivers, drunk drivers, bad maps, and a Valium OD. Accidents and suicide. My hurting is not reason to flail out with punishments (jailing) that might make me feel better (if I enjoy meting out misplaced aggression), but will only make things worse for everyone. Jailing peaceful adults for pot makes things worse for everyone. And doesn’t bring back anyone from the dead. We’ve tried your way of jailing people for cannabis for almost a century in the U.S. – Jailing people for pot hasn’t worked, doesn’t work, and won’t work. Time to try a little freedom, instead. Time to (re-) legalize pot.
Posted on January 18th, 2010 at 11:52 pm
Kevin,
Your arguments sound nice on the surface but are intellectually based on a very shaky ground… this blog is called “reality check”? I would love to pick this apart piece by piece, but I read this too late and I need my sleep. Probably not the best article to read before sleeping since this type of lazy thinking makes my blood boil. You mention a jump in marijuana addiction rehab nearly doubling in a years time. Kevin, which is the more likely scenario… after nearly a half century of popular use, there has been a great awakening among users who suddenly wish to quit and seek treatment virtually overnight… OR… the british government shifted their approach in dealing with the matter by forcing marijuana “offenders” to accept treatment as an alternative to prison? The same thing happens in the US.
Also, many follow up studies cast serious doubt over the psychosis/marijuana link. It is an old argument.
Oh, and the argument in your second paragraph is retarded. Sorry, that’s just the very best way to articulate my feelings about that.
Our current drug laws are shameful and immoral. I wish I could continue. Goodnight…
Chris
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 12:28 am
Wow, so many false or misleading statements. Teens in rehab for marijuana are just taking it over jail time from a drug court.
Alcohol is the number one cause of death for Texas teens, there has never been an overdose of marijuana because it is impossible to overdose from marijuana. The title of the blog is just ridiculous.
Sorry about the comment about the suicide, but many people who commit suicide have eaten at McDonalds, that does not mean it cause them to take their life. Drug and alcohol use can be a person way of trying to alieviate depression.
I would prefer my wife and children be driven by a person who just smoked high quality weed than one who just drank 4 beers. The side effect from marijuana is greater attention and more careful driving, the opposite of alcohol’s effect. Studies have shown this.
As far as mental disorders, the study sited did not prove a cause from marijuana. People who hear voices in their heads might try a few different drugs before a medical doctor diagnosis the illness.
30% THC, that is not likely, but thanks to prohibition, it is the goal since it is worth more. It is similar to moonshine during alcohol’s prohibition, the higher the proof, the more it was worth. Legalize marijuana for adult use and the THC content would be on the label. People who buy 18% Super high grade marijuana do not have to smoke a joint to get the effect, they just take one puff. You don’t get higher the more you smoke without limit, it is not like alcohol.
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 1:03 am
GO TO HTTP//WWW.SAFERCHOICE.ORG FOR THE TRUTH
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 1:31 am
People drive much better high than drunk. Most pot-smokers drive high all the time, and they drive fine.
The number of pot-smokers won’t rise substantially if it is legalized. The U.S. already has the highest percentage of people who smoke cannabis in the world, and it’s not even legal here.
The percentage of THC in today’s strongest weed is not 30%: it’s more like 20% maximum. But all this means is that smokers need to smoke less to get high, and will therefore cause their lungs less harm. There is such a thing as “too high,” except that unlike “too drunk,” you don’t die and you don’t lose control of yourself.
The increasing numbers of teens going into addiction treatment: they are required to go into addiction treatment by the feds if arrested for possession. Those statistics are commonly used by prohibitionists; even the drug czar himself cited this “fact.” Lying scum, huh?
I really wouldn’t use the government to get my information on marijuana. They are kind of biased in this matter, which is, I guess, the major impediment to legalization. After all, we trust that our government would never lie to us, would never change or make up any facts for us. What motives could they POSSIBLY have? Surely not money.
There are many new studies that show the correlation with psychosis is utter b.s.
People will do drugs, forever. There’s no stopping them. Just like there’s no stopping the Jews. Hitler tried, but he couldn’t do it. They fought for the freedom to live their lives the way they wanted to, to not be told how they should live by others.
I have a friend who is 5th in our senior class in high school, and a friend who also gets straight A’s and is a great drummer in the school’s band. Both smoke more weed than I do. Way more. And they have for well over two years. Not one of us would ever touch cocaine, meth, heroine, or let ourselves get addicted to tobacco (we smoke it rarely; sometimes on birthdays we’ll make blunts with weed and tobacco in them).
Do you know about the 4/20 parties that take place on April 20? They are massive crowds numbering in the thousands, of people coming together and smoking lots of weed. The parties get bigger every year. The tokers all drive to parks and gather on the grass, and at 4:20pm light up their joints and taste the freedom, all while some cops watch. Then they all leave, still very high. And guess what? NO CAR CRASHES. Well, well! Look at that!
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 1:31 am
I’m very sorry for your loss Patricia, that is heartbreaking! Whether it was marijuana that killed your son or not, the prohibition failed to prevent him from being able to buy it. 7,000 people were brutally murdered last year because we keep marijuana illegal and yet people are able to buy it as easily as if it were legal. Many of those victims were children, police officers and politicians, and their deaths did nothing to prevent people from being able to buy marijuana. Why did they have to die when not a single one of us benefited from their deaths? And how many more children will be murdered this year because we keep marijuana illegal? Do we just not care?
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 2:12 am
Certainly the writer of this article is very biased against cannabis. I am a 24 year and calling for the of cannabis prohibition in my home country the USA. I graduated B.S. in computer engineering cum laude from the University of Illinois. While in college I studied abroad in Italy and spent some time in Holland, a modern free democratic country that has successfully implemented common sense cannabis legislation and it was there that I first realized the propaganda pumped out in America against marijuana or “pot”. However it wasn’t until returning and studying this issue much further that I realized the extent of the misinformation and injustice.
For instance, when looking at how cannabinoids destroy brain cancer it is important to note that the ratio of THC to CBD is more important than the actual percentages found in the plant as some cannabinoids regulate other cannabinoids in the endocannabinoid system naturally occurring in our human body. Ergo, the way the endocannabinoid system works it is likely to not matter the sheer concentration increase of THC in the way that you describe it.
Anyone who claims that marijuana could possibly be worse than LSD or heroine hasn’t tried any of those drugs and where one cannot speak one must remain silent.
The fact is nicotine is the biggest gateway drug and its the one you can continue to use at most treatment hospitals. The fact that traces of marijuana remain detectable in the system for over 6 x longer than LSD, mushrooms, opiates and amphetamines is likely to lead to false statistics about cannabis causing psychosis. I know people when arrested and forced into a treatment program for their “marijuana addiction” are typically assigned some mental illness that FDA approved medication can be prescribed for and administered against the patients will. Often times these new pharma drugs are way more psychoactive and provide a long list of negative physical side effects to go with whatever it is they are supposed to be treating. Something mostly absent with marijuana.
By not endorsing decriminalization and legalization you are exacting your will to torture cannabis users in a failed system that wastes lives and resources to a much greater extent than the plant itself. I’m sure you’ve heard it all before: the money to prosecute, prison costs, treatment costs, reduction in the overall work output of society (ie. I am writing this letter instead of doing some other important thing) Additionally you are creating an easy market for the most hardened of criminals–since the penalties are much less for small possession than for growing a small number of plants it become very profitable for hardened criminals to mitigate the risk of growing.
Finally, I always hate when I hear about how someone used marijuana and chose suicide. Many people that have not used marijuana have also chosen suicide. Millions of people smoke week everyday and don’t kill themselves. Suicide is a sad thing, but just because I drank breast milk before I did it doesn’t mean we should require all babies to use supplement. Perhaps if a suicide were marijuana related it could have been prevented had cannabis been legally available and discrimination not taken place.
Anyway, let everyone have a voice, that’s what this country was founded on ..
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 2:49 am
Funny this article says Marijuana Much Riskier than Alcohol … I’ve always thought it was SAFER.
http://www.saferchoice.org/
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 2:59 am
It is heartbreaking to read all of these last century lies about one of GOD’s miraculous gifts. If you are indeed good Christians and not merely mouthpieces for commercially motivated Prohibitionists, then you will stop for a moment and open your eyes to the fact that we have all been lied to for nearly 100 years. How can you be so certain in your hatred for this simple flower, this gift from the Creator? Keep in mind that up until The Great Prohibition cannabis sativa had been revered for thousands of years and across all cultures as a vitally important food fiber and medicinal cultivar. If humans ceased to exist on this planet, alcohol, pharmaceuticals and nylon fiber would disappear as well. Cannabis sativa would thrive on every continent as it always has.
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 7:26 am
By the way i dont smoke weed , tried it a few times 10 years ago and i hated the high of it , the high of weed is weaker then alcohol,
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Patricia, I am sorry to hear what happened to your son. But I would state that your experience is not a typical one.
We do not ban alcohol on the basis that there are alcoholics out there, simply because we know from experience that this causes more harm than good.
We are in the same situation now with marijuana. If we are to move forward with marijuana as a society, we ought to legalize and regulate it. It’s the only way to control the market, and it’s the only way to successfully keep it out of the hands of kids and problematic users. It’s also the only way to de-glamorize it as a substance.
Perhaps we should consider why our country is the largest consumer of drugs in the world.
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
This “War on Drugs” is a total failure. For example, the prohibition of cannabis is a gold mine for cartels, law enforcement, and the prison industry. They are the ones who want this boondoggle to continue. They make billions from all of this destruction and chaos. Some want to blame the consumer, but this is a flawed argument. Consumers will always find a way to buy what they want, and this cannot be changed. The failed drug war has proven this fact. Drug use has only increased, much to the delight of the cartels, law enforcement, and the prison industry. These three, are the “Axis of Evil” of drugs. Cartels make billions selling and wreaking havoc while protecting their drug trade. Law enforcement simply busts small time users and pushers to make their “Statistics” look better to get more Federal Dollars. Now, let me be very clear, most individual law enforcement officers are good people and believe that the drug war is lost http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php ““Law Enforcement Against Prohibition” LEAP is an organization that acknowledges that drug abuse is bad, but the drug war is worse. The third beast in the “Axis of Evil” is the prison industry. The prison industry is starting to privatize, which feeds the incentive to incarcerate everyone, not just non-violent drug offenders. The US incarcerates 25% of the world’s prisoners. Just over 1 in every 100 US citizens is either in jail, prison or on probation. We, as a country, are either the most evil society in the world or we have a very broken criminal justice system. The “Axis of Evil” also has a very strong lobbying arm that lines the pockets of our US politicians. This powerful lobby is buying political protection, and will fight tirelessly to perpetuate their lie called the “War of Drugs”. Al Capone’s mob is the same problem as Pablo Escobar’s drug cartel and the solution to both are the same. By firsthand experience, New Jersey knows better than anyone else that the end of alcohol prohibition in the 1930’s was such a success not just because of the legalization of alcohol but rather the regulation and taxation of alcohol. When alcohol was regulated, consumers became safer. They could determine for themselves, the proof (% of alcohol) they wanted. They knew what they were buying and not left to whatever mystery-potion the supplier may have available. The regulated alcohol did not contain lead or other contaminates because the Government regulated the distilling process. The bootleggers where instantly out of business and the government spent less money policing and more time collecting all the new tax dollars created. Answer this! How many convenience store clerks hand out free samples of beer? How many drug dealers check ID’s before the sale? Teenagers can buy a bag of weed easier than they can buy a six pack of beer. Here is one more question to answer. Would it not be cheaper and easier to rehabilitate an addict, than trying to resurrect murdered innocents and incarcerate non-violent drug participants? The first step toward sanity is for America to legalize, regulate, and tax cannabis. Otherwise, the “Axis of Evil” will continue to count their blood-money as the human-skinned soccer ball is kicked around. http://www.nydailynews.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=83963&start=0&tstart=0
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Sorry for the loss of your son.
Unfortunately, it’s easier for children to obtain illegal drugs than beer. Legislation, regulation and taxation of alcohol seems to have worked much better than the “war of drugs.”
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
This is a hot topic thread but if you want to see your comments approved please do NOT do the following:
1) Start off your comments with obscenities or call the author names.
2) Repeat ad nauseum all the pro-pot propaganda our there then excoriate the author for repeating what you claim is anti-pot propaganda.
3) Act like unsympathetic, uncaring jerks about Patricia’s son’s suicide and/or insult Patricia about her loss and sorrow.
4) Tell us that all the potheads of the ’60s and ’70s are just fine now. No, they are not and if you don’t believe me, just look at who is in power right now in Washington, DC, specifically in the Democratic Party.
5) Attack the religion of the author or make off-the-wall anti-Christian comments because you, somehow, are convinced that your “enlightened” atheism is proof of your mental, moral and social superiority.
ADDENDUM #1:
6) Attack ME for not allowing your flawed, boring, unoriginal, repetitive nonsense to see the light of day.
7) Demand that I post your garbage while citing the First Amendment. Yes, you have the right of freedom of speech in a public venue but TRC is not a public venue. It is an eZine with an editorial policy just like any other newspaper or magazine that does not print all the Letters To The Editor that it receives. Your freedom of speech does not cover lies, slander, libel or calling me a coward for not making allowances for your inferior writing skills.
8 Ignore spelling, punctuation and syntax. Holey moley, people! Were you all educated with an inner tube and a banana?
9) Brag about how your college grades went up upon smoking dope because in cyberspace, you’re judged by the contents of your thoughts, not your grade point average. Right here and right now, it looks more like you tuned in, turned on and dropped out.
Addendum #2:
10) Keep squealing about how this site is called “The Reality Check” then tell us how unreal and naive we are about pot. Well, here’s a REALITY CHECK for you: In the here and now pot is ILLEGAL and you are putting yourself, your immediate family and your future in jeopardy by using it.
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
Dear Admin,
Is it simply pro-pot propaganda to point out that alcohol can kill acutely while marijuana cannot? Or is is an objective truth? And if it is the latter, why can’t you admit it?
Gerald
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 9:49 pm
All drugs Should be legal and all guns should be legal , it’s not the problem or buisness of the government what substance you put in your body or what gun you own, simple as that, banning drugs is a huge thing in hardcore socialists/communist nations like Sweden and Norway because it’s gives an excuse for communist bureaucrats- to endlessly expand the size of the government in the name of “war on drugs”
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
Any argument against the re-legalization of cannabis* that depends on claims of its terrible addictiveness and social harm, that isn’t immediately followed with a cry to ban alcohol and tobacco, is the very definition of hypocrisy.
If prohibition is such a necessary step to protect society, why do we not ban alcohol and tobacco? You go ahead and think about that one; I’ll be over here skimming this book on Al Capone and twentieth century Chicago moonshine gangsters…
*You do know it was legal to grow cannabis in America from 1611-1937, don’t you? And that from 1850-1911 cannabis was one of the most prescribed medicines in the pharmacopeia?
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
Marijuana prohibition costs the united states 42 Billion dollars a year. We have a population of 304 million people according to the US Census. That comes out to approximately $200 – $300 dollars that each tax paying citizen pays a year to fund prisons, law enforcement and grants awarded to pharmaceutical industries. These are some major conflicts of interests that we subsidize. How are we supposed to expect the truth to come out of the politicians mouths when they themselves are the gatekeepers to all of this subsidized money?
Please read below before rushing to conclusions.
“On June 24, 2005 ProCon.org sent a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to find the number of deaths caused by marijuana compared to the number of deaths caused by 17 FDA-approved drugs. Twelve of these FDA-approved drugs were chosen because they are commonly prescribed in place of medical marijuana, while the remaining five FDA-approved drugs were randomly selected because they are widely used and recognized by the general public.”
Total Deaths – Marijuana (Indirectly) – 279
Total Deaths – FDA – Approved (Directly) 10,008 (Indirectly) 1,679
Thats a 48:1 ratio of how dangerous FDA Meds are compared to Marijuana, and the indirectly number no doubt, probably included a lot of irresponsible people.
Interestingly, the Marinol has been directly responsible for (4) deaths, and indirectly responsible for (1) death.
Should we really be trusting government officials that ignore Medical properties of Marijuana as they tell us that a legal version named “Marinol” already solves the problem?
One of humans fundamental flaws is that we outsource our problems on scapegoats instead of addressing the real problems. Are we going to blame video games as the next drug? McDonalds for our Obesity epidemic? Guns for Violence?.
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 11:27 pm
Bottom line is unless we’re prepared to demonize all substance abuse (alcohol, tobacco, etc.) then we need to have a real dialog about drug policy. I say the states should be the deciders and the DEA needs to reschedule to at least something more reasonable. Having tetrahydrocannabinols scheduled higher than cocaine, methamphetamines and opium is just ludicrous.
Posted on January 19th, 2010 at 11:35 pm
The verdict on psychosis and other mental disorders isn’t really fixed in stone. Here are a couple quotes from Doctors that suggest the opposite:
“Despite the enormous popularity of cannabis in the 1960s and 1970s in numerous Western cultures, rates of psychotic disorders haven’t increased since then in any of these societies. Individuals suffering from mental illness such as schizophrenia tend to use all intoxicants – particularly alcohol and tobacco – at greater rates than the general population. Not surprisingly, many of these individuals also use cannabis.”
The evidence that cannabis has a causative role in chronic psychotic or affective disorders is not convincing, although the drug may modify the course of an already established illness.”
“Given that the incidence of schizophrenia declined substantially in Western societies in the 1970s, at the same time cannabis use was rising, it seems highly unlikely that marijuana causes schizophrenia in otherwise healthy people….
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/viewanswers.asp?questionID=000220
Posted on January 20th, 2010 at 9:30 am
Let me pick which response to get back to–there’s so many! I know I’ll miss something, but I’ll try and remember the important ones.
First, let me say that it’s been tested, investigated, graphed, pointed out, and demonstrated how alcohol can affect the physical body. Blood alcohol levels have been checked against every motor and brain skill you can think of, against every weight class, sex, and IQ that exists. There are thousands of charts that’ll show how your body will react against how many drinks of beer, wine, whiskey, and white lightning you may have pumped into your system. That’s why most states have the generalization that 0.08 blood/alcohol level makes you physically drunk. All that is known. Those limits are the law.
With marijuana, there is nothing that is known, other than the active ingredient (THC) was 2-3% of marijuana smoke back 20-30 years ago. Now, it analyzes at 10x that amount, so it’s significantly stronger than earlier. Nobody knows exactly what it does to your mental or physical health. There’s no way of knowing whether your in a controllable region or an uncontrollable one. No one knows where the “physically drunk” point starts.
No one can say it is harmless. It’s possible they haven’t reached that point of no return. I get a hundred negative responses, but it’s a given that those responses are only a minute fraction of marijuana users out there. Many of them have likely seen more of the obtuse effects of marijuana–either because they were scared about what they read and how it matched their history, how they were truly addicted and they were even looking at harder drugs, or they were worried about how the drug affected their ability to get a job.
Very few readers even read any of the links I provided. The few that did seem past denial no matter what they see. You rarely graduate yourself from alcohol to a more potent drug, but it’s very common to graduate yourself from marijuana to a more potent drug.
If a marijuana user goes into psychosis, he/she has no control over what they do, nor can they know they’re in a psychotic state. If something can be measured (alcohol can), then there can be a limit placed. But if something cannot be measured (marijuana cannot), then no limits can be set, no overdose level can be known (different for every individual), and a drug of unknown effect is left unbanned–then you’re asking for trouble…
(PART 1 OF 2)
Posted on January 20th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Why is marijuana illegal anyway? I can’t seem to find the medical or scientific panel that made the recommendation. Could you help me with that?
Posted on January 20th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
part 2 of 2:
Nobody knows how many deaths marijuana is responsible for. Nobody knows how to measure it. It’s easy to say alcohol was the cuprit. But how many of those deaths were directly due to the marijuana taken together with the alcohol?
We have no idea how much marijuana prohibition costs America. Are we saying that cost is not justifiable to the innocent and guilty people we might have saved? As soon as we understand a numerical limit on humans for marijuana intake, then we can do something like we’ve done with alcohol.
The “War on Drugs” has not been a failure. How many have lived because marijuana has been mostly illegal? Nobody as ever come up with that number. Legalization of marijuana in many countries has resulted in huge increases of users. It doesn’t seen like many have read and of the links that were provided in my column. Legalization will result in more people having different psychoses from over indulging, more people being admitted to the hospital, more costs steming from healthcare, more deaths of others and loved ones from marijuana users who have no idea what they’re doing.
It’s amazing how many claim they know exactly what marijuana does to their system. Have they every taken an IQ test after use, have they ever taken a memory test, physical skills, motor function, any other test? Do they always know what they do when they’re under the influence of marijuana? Do they realize that it’s easy to keep from getting drunk with alcohol. Millions do it every day. With marijuana there’s no known limit, no knowledge gained when a psychosis was attained.
Did any of the responders ever have a loved one killed by someone high on marijuana? Does anyone know the exact amount of THC in your marijuana cigarette?
So many questions. So many high on marijuana.
Hey, remember to have a nice day!
Posted on January 20th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
This article is laughable at best, with it’s newest citation being around 5 years old. Also, just about any marijuana study is going to be bias as they are funded by those who wish to keep the scheduled status of marijuana where it is, namely the US government There are some key points though, that just really set me off.
Anything is a gateway drug by the standard set forth, cherios are gateway for honey nut cherios, with their refined processed sugars that are raising the rate of diabetes amongst the youth absurdly.
Isn’t it amazingly possible that alcohol is the gateway drug to marijuana, cocaine and methamphetamine due to the decreased activity in the frontal lobe, our brains area of decision making, that it causes? Most people i know were intoxicated on alcohol the first time they tried any of these three substances.
Psychosis is not the correct word, the implies permanence. These people suffer from a psychotic break, which happen to anyone, road rage is a real prime example of psychotic breaks. A psychotic break is when a normally schizophrenic person temporarily goes into a state of psychosis, usually triggered by environmental conditions. WIthdrawal from benzodiazpines and opiates are also major causes of psychotic breaks, as well as just about any psychedelic drug (PCP, DXM, LSD, 2C-B).
And the last notion this article spews that is deeply disturbing is that someone can actually know how drunk they are going to be based on how much they have had to drink, or that someone is not intoxicated just because they are not legally intoxicated. People can still receive a DUI if they blow under .08% BAC because alcohol effects people differently. As well there are a great number of influences in how drunk a person gets, the main ones are their alcohol tolerance (something that’s not measurable) and their metabolic rate (measurable, but not on the spot). Both these influences change, alcohol tolerance eventually goes down in alcoholism due to liver being overburdened, and our metabolic rate changes based on how much food we have ingested recently.
Any marijuana user can judge the content of THC just like a whisky connoisseur can taste the difference between a cask strength a normal bottling, based on SCENT alone. Good marijuana smells skunky, mexican schwag doesn’t. Good marijuana is also visibly different from bad marijuana, the THC can be seen in the form of trichomes on the marijuana, the more trichomes, the potent.
Lastly, this is one i was told by a police officer that really gives a clear picture of alcohol dangers compared to marijuana danger. Ask any police officer two questions, first question “When was the last time you had to restrain someone who was acting violently due to mairjuana intoxication?” Now ask the same officer this question “When was the last time you had to restrain someone who was acting violently due to alcohol intoxication?” The first question usually leaves the officer with a dumbfounded look because they probably never have, or if they have it has been a while. The second question gets a quick response, it’s usually the officer looking at their watch and doing some math to realize how many HOURS have passed since they had to restrain a violent drunk. You could follow those questions with “How many people have you had to help with THC poisoning” and “How many people have you had to help with alcohol poisoning.”
Please Kevin, I beg of you to bring up something new and substantial that would sway anyone’s opinion one way or the other about marijuana. It is clear that thus far you have not done so This is reflected in the comments to this post, where a single person who had a terrible tragedy happen, that cannot even be linked to marijuana, has commented saying their are in agreement with your argument while scores of others cite modern studies that pretty much disprove any point you have made.
While i feel for anyone who has lost a loved one, i also realize that in a time of need, any answer can become plausible because their is no real answer as to why the events unfolded the way they did. I will forever wonder about numerous un-natural deaths that have occurred around me, but i will never know the answers because they were lost with the lives, anything else is just speculation.
Posted on January 20th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Scrut,
For all the reasons I’ve listed…
Posted on January 20th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Patricia i am very sorry to hear of your sons death but blaming marijuana a harmless herb makes you look ignorant your son did not die from cannabis use he had emotional probloms that you overlooked so dont damn all of us marijuana users because your son killed himself the cannabis wasnt to blame marijuana does not make you suicidal prescription drugs do .
Posted on January 20th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
There has been a debate between those who use Cannabis and really know their stuff, and those that don’t smoke Cannabis and don’t know anything except what they read. I had a debate between my elderly mother and myself recently, about the use of Cannabis; I admitted that I used it. Before she could get into a full scale attack on me using old and tested media and government miss-information, I said one thing that stopped her in her tracks. “Mother, before you tell me all those things you heard about Cannabis from the media etc, how many Cannabis smokers do you hear about who go out to the city centers at the weekends and fight with bottles and knives, abuse people and urinate in the streets, create disturbance, lawlessness and damage?” She didn’t reply except to give a nod of acceptance that for once in my life I was right. Decriminalize Cannabis, it makes sense.
Posted on January 20th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
So, Kevin, you seem to be saying that there are a lot of unknowns with marijuana, but there aren’t with alcohol. If we take that at face value, then you should have titled this piece “Marijuana may or may not be much riskier than alcohol”.
In any case, all your fulminating about a drinker knowing exactly how much he’s taking in, and thereby being able to regulate intake, is really quite pointless in the face of millions upon millions of people getting drunk beyond self-recognition each year. Yes, they have the opportunity to moderate, but many choose not to. And when they don’t moderate alcohol puts them at risk of overdose death, sexual assault, passing out and freezing in snowbanks, driving dangerously, getting into fights, and hitting wives.
Against this you bring up again and again an alleged increase in a very rare risk of schizophrenia, which plainly affects only a susceptible subset of people. Pretty weak.
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 9:21 am
Doesn’t it fell just a little odd to be taking the same position as the drug gangs? Keeping cannabis illegal only enriches the pockets of the WRONG people. Is this what you are advocating? Have you studied the history of alcohol prohibition?
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 9:57 am
I read through your article and responses. I find statements and links about how marijuana is bad…but, how/why was it made illegal? Did the American Medical Association push for prohibition? Did the AMA present data to Congress about the dangers? Were Doctors of the era concerned about marijuana addiction? I understand that it’s bad stuff, but how did it get to be illegal?
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 10:01 am
Patricia, your son’s death is truly heart breaking. It’s sad that there is so little help available for young people suffering from depression.
To all of us, we need to realize that as a nation, we’ve turned our back on our suffering fellow citizens, cutting mental health care from our pubic budgets and pouring the money into police and prisons. The arrest, prosecution, prison, and forced “treatment” of drug users costs the U.S. taxpayers billions of dollars every year, billions that are therefore NOT available for schools, health care, repairing our roads and bridges, and a hundred other vitally important social needs. Surely no one believes that imprisoning Americans for using a plant is a better use of our limited resources than educating our children, maintaining our infrastructure, and keeping our families safe from foreign terrorists?
Let’s put the drug dealing criminals out of business and free up our tax dollars to meet America’s real needs. Let’s tax and regulate marijuana, and let’s let ordinary Americans grow a little marijuana in their own back yards; maybe $100 a year for a permit to grow a dozen plants. It’s a win-win.
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 10:29 am
Funny that I started smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol at a young age before peer pressure… my parents did it why shouldn’t I?
My parents never smoked cannabis… they fell into the whole “Reefer Madness” propaganda, and now both are addicted to prescription pills and will not give a simple plant a try for their pain management, but will certainly will down acai berry extract like it is going out of style.
Thanks Govt propaganda for hiding the truth about the world around us…
Cannabis makes paper, fuel, clothing, nylon, food (non-intoxicating), and 25,000 other things. What can any other plant make like what POT makes?
Today I am smoking cigs and drinking a beer… I would rather go out in public medicated on cannabis than be drunk on booze.
http://blog.mpp.org/uncategorized/alcohol-is-straining-u-k-%E2%80%99s-health-care-system/01042010/
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 10:50 am
To respond to Central Scrutinizer i can give you the truth of why cannabis was criminalized. Ultimately it was business motivation, but i’ll gladly tell you the whole story.
Cannabis, hemp in particular, was poised to take a dominate market in the production of paper in the early days of the great depression, it is VERY good for that, amongst a variety of other things like very strong cheap rope. It requires almost no tending in the field, it’s called weed because it grows like one. Well, some prominent business men at the time had some strong ties to lumber industry, these businessmen were primarily news company owners who had interests in timber for paper production because they used it and made the companies they had invested in more valuable. The main person i’m speaking of is William Randolf Hurst. Hurst, due to being scared of the hemp industry overtaking the timber industry for paper production proceeded to run a slam campaign against marijuana. He funded any research that would prove it was bad, and ran articles in the hundreds of newspapers he controlled. This is what started “reefer madness” of misinformation on marijuana.
At the same time a another major player in the war on drugs came out to play. He goes by the name of Jerry Anslinger. He is widely known to have been very racist, especially against a scourge we are still fighting today, Mexican migrant workers. Anslinger once said “There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others.” He was at this point Asst. Prohibition Commissioner with the Bureau of Prohibition. He was then, in 1930, appointed as the first director of the Treasury Department’s newly formed Federal Bureau of Narcotics. He held this position for 32 years, and in that time waged his racist war on marijuana, and furthered the reefer madness, by funding any study that would show marijuana is a bad drug, that is has negative effects, and using gov’t money to produce the many scare films. This is the man responsible for the marijuana stamp tax, followed by full criminalization shortly there after.
So ultimately Hurst and Anslinger created the war on drug for personal interests, one for money, the other to drive blacks and latinos out of the country so they wouldn’t corrupt white women. Great rationality I’ve always thought.
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Gerald,
Evidently you did not read everything. We KNOW that it is riskier than alcohol. We already know some things about cannabis. We know that for some people it does induce all sorts of types of psychoses, we know that for many they do not even know what they did for varying periods of time, we know that there may be at least 100,000 times the users of pot that did not respond to this column (many of whom know they’ve gone over the edge and they haven’t done anything that can be traced, that they were unaware of what they were doing for long periods of time).
Have you ever looked at a brain that’s been subjected to pot smoke for a few months? It’s not pretty. Motor skills are compromised, it’s difficult to find a job, memory is compromised, resistance to diseases is compromised, sexual ability is compromised, and abilty to make simple calculations is compromised.
Regulating intake of alcohol is never pointless. After a period of time, you’re always back to how you were. Intake of THC from cannabis is so much of an unknown for each different person that their reaction is never really known, and it may be different every time they inhale cannabis.
Alcohol is controllable. Cannabis is not. It’s unfortunate some Americans are so illiterate with plants. If you take some animals, some are really cuddly. Some are quite dangerous. With chemicals, some are highly dangerous (i.e., radiaoactive), some like oxygen are necessary. Some plants are good in moderation. Some can be highly dangerous, and be highly poisonous, potentally alergy-forming, dangerous to touch, and others can induce many psychoses. Your call…
Considering what happens to the brain after extended use of cannabis, most scientifically aloof people understand what kind of danger it possesses. It’s not difficult to understand why so many believe that it should be criminalized.
It’s simply unChristian of someone to think that the money spent on the criminalization of pot anywhere compares to the money spent on the UN, national departments that are unnecessary, and at least 467 other unnessary major expenditures.
And it is ludicrous to think someone can tell the THC content of cannabis just by ordinary senses. Maybe we should ask everyone if they know what the % THC is. Better yet, we can ask what ppm THC they would be breathing with cannabis, starting from the first and ending with the last.
A better question to ask a police officer is if marijuana intoxication is known, why would he feel better about restraining someone involved with alcohol intoxication? Maybe we should all ask Ian if he’s ever done any pot before. Also if he’s ever looked up the correct definition of psychosis. Does he remember everything that happened during one of his excursions?
Maybe one should keep in mind that marijuana wasn’t made illegal in most counties because of it being a harmless herb. Maybe some of our lawmakers just decided that they should make cannabis illegal because they thought the leaf was irregular.
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 4:42 pm
My, my, my. When I saw the article’s title, I considered not even looking at it. But then, I must be willing to listen to opinion if I want people to hear mine.
-First of all, this article was written based on studies from the 60s and 70s. You take those, and add in a bunch of unamerican propaganda and fears created from rumors, and there you go – you get garbage like this.
-Secondly, the name sais something that makes no since in this or any other galaxy. Cannabis more dangerous than booze? Oh, come on, please give me a break. I have seen alcoholism among my family and friends. Alcohol is astronomically, astonishingly, unmeasurably damaging to both the individual AND society. I also know people who are addicted to fully legal prescription medicine, and one person addicted to heroin. Please do not challenge my intelligence and everyone else’s by saying cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol. To me, those are really big fighting words.
-Next, lets look at the laws themselves. Beer is legal, and pot isn’t. Ask almost any HS senior which is easier to get, and I guarantee you will get the same answer every single time. Drug dealers do not require an ID to check for age. Drug dealers do not care how old there customers are at all, as long as they sell there junk. Whether the drug be pot, heroine, or coke it’s all the same. Illegal equals unregulated, and unregulated equals no controls whatsoever, and thast equals disaster.
Prohibition of any sort goes against the very founding of our nation. It is unamerican, unconstitutional, and immoral. I suppose if George Washington, James Madison, or Benjamin Franklin were here, the police would drop everything and go after them. After all, every single one of our founding fathers grew, harvested, and used your big, bad, evil drug.
I’m just so happy, and feel so much safer, that the police and government feel the need to let rapist, murders, cartels, gangs, car thieves, and armed robbers do there jobs so they can persecute a highly usable, very beneficial, extremely healthy flower. What a flipping joke.
Here are some pro-cannabis and anti-prohibition quotes by some of America’s most influential historical and contemporary figures.
“Make the most of the Indian hemp seed, and sow it everywhere!”
George Washington, U.S. President, in a note to his gardener at Mount Vernon
“Hemp is of first necessity to the wealth & protection of the country.”
Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President
“Some of my finest hours have been spent on the back of my veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as the eye can see.”
Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President
“We shall, by and by, want a world of hemp more for our own consumption.”
John Adams, U.S. President
“Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica.”
Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President, from a letter written by Lincoln during his presidency to the head of the Hohner Harmonica Company in Germany
“Prohibition… goes beyond the bound of reason in that it attempts to control a man’s appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded”
Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President
“Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself; and where they are, they should be changed. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against possession of marihuana in private for personal use… Therefore, I support legislation amending Federal law to eliminate all Federal criminal penalties for the possession of up to one ounce of marihuana.”
Jimmy Carter, U.S. President
“I inhaled frequently. That was the point.”
Barack Obama, U.S. President
“The war on drugs has been an utter failure. We need to rethink and decriminalize our nation’s marijuana laws.”
Barack Obama, U.S. President
“The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world.”
Carl Sagan, renown scientist, astronomer, astrochemist, author and TV host
“Why use up the forests which were centuries in the making and the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest and mineral products in the annual growth of the hemp fields?”
Henry Ford, whose first Model-T car was constructed from hemp fibers and built to run on hemp gasoline
“The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this.”
Albert Einstein, famous theoretical physicist
“Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could.”
William F. Buckley, Jr., prominent conservative, author, commentator and TV personality
“That is not a drug. It’s a leaf.”
Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California
I say, let’s track down every single one of those people above, and lock them up for producing and promoting a dangerous drug.
My, how utterly stupid prohibs sound. It’s a BS law, and is nothing more than fascism in the country I happen to love – and it stinks.
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 6:47 pm
[...] Marijuana Much Riskier Than Alcohol – Reality CheckHow many have called for the decriminalization of marijuana? Supposedly it doesn’t harm anyone else. Even President Obama repeatedly promised to stop federal interference with state laws that allow the medical use of marijuana. The writer is [...]
Posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 4:39 am
Luke,
I’m suprised you take things out of context to bolster your point. Have you ever smoked marijuana yourself? Have you ever discoved ‘blanks’ in your memory from past binges? Do you know how much you can smoke before going into a psychosis?
Where did you get info from that this info I had was 40 years old? I guess you just skipped over the part where I said cannabis has THC levels sometimes 10x more than past experiences.
Prohibition of killing is on the books. So is stealing. So is forgery. Abortion should be. Some things are prohibited if they take away one’s freedoms like killing.
It sounds like you like pot a lot more than this country. Am I right?
Posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 12:10 pm
So much of your positions against cannabis seem to be bolstered from DARE like sources. Let me give you my DARE experience.
My children came home from school with DARE material. I thought it would be a good opportunity to discuss the dangers of drug abuse. When my children told me what the DARE officer told them and showed me the handout, I was stunned!
The DARE officer stated, and the handout collaborated, that:
Heroin causes you to speed up and makes your heart expolde. (Yes, it was written in the handout!)
A single line of cocaine will stop your heart.
A second line of cocaine will cause permanent brain damage. (So how did they get past the first line?)
Marijuana stays in your system for 11 years.
Marijuana will make you violent.
Marijuana will make you steal from your parents to get more.
LSD will make you jump out of a window.
LSD will make you see purple elephants.
And on and on…
My kids said that some of the students were very interested in seeing the purple elephants and soon started talking about how to get some LSD. I called the DARE officer to discuss the statements in the handout. I ended the conversation when he threatened to ‘make my life hard’ if I didn’t ’shut up’ about the program. I reported him to my police officer friend down the street. My concern was that incorrect information was as bad as no information.
I’m most likely much older than most posters here but I know bad information when I see it and this article is bad information. I’ve seen many alcoholics and drug addicts. They are both bad news. I’ve seen both of them take a headlong dive into the graveyard pulling everybody that they can with them. But I have never seen anyone only using marijuana be anywhere as violent as a drunk. Sloth may set in but marijuana users I’m around just aren’t violent. Some are nice people and stick to themselves and are not a bother. I’ve seen others that were a menance but they were not violent to me or my family. My point is that in my experience, I don’t think that marijuana is worse than alcohol. My police friends admit the same to me…in public.
If you have an axe to grind against marijuana, then go ahead and present your side. However, the side presented here is based on biased misinformation that is easily dismissed as government propaganda. True or not. I suggest that you find information from sources that are not government entities or their subservient organizations in order to bolster your case. Pulling data from sources that require prohibition to survive, i.e.; ONDCP, DEA, et. al., isn’t putting forth an easily defensible position. Seriously, I suggest that you give it another try with medical sources and not government sources. You’ll have better ground to stand on. Good luck with that!
Posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 1:09 pm
GalsGalore,
Marijuana doesn’t hurt anyone else? What have you been smoking???
Posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Kevin, Kevin, Kevin.
>>I’m suprised you take things out of context to bolster your point. Have you ever smoked marijuana yourself?
Yes I have. Have you? I seriously doubt it.
>>Have you ever discoved ‘blanks’ in your memory from past binges?
No, but apparently you can’t remember how to spell “discovered.”
>>Do you know how much you can smoke before going into a psychosis?
Quit fear mongering and starting rumors. It does not cause psychosis. Studies conducted over the past 10 years have proven that. This hasn’t been anywhere near accepted by reputable scientists in over 30 years. Learn your facts, please.
>>Where did you get info from that this info I had was 40 years old?
Your way of thinking among anyone credible enough to make such calls as you do went out 30 and 40 years ago. It started dying off in the 80s and 90s, with the exception of gov’t officials.
>>I guess you just skipped over the part where I said cannabis has THC levels sometimes 10x more than past experiences.
No, I read it. It’s just a useless point. If it has a higher THC content, that means you will smoke less to get the same effect, thereby making that crop less damaging to the lungs.
>>Prohibition of killing is on the books. So is stealing. So is forgery. Abortion should be. Some things are prohibited if they take away one’s freedoms like killing.
That’s all good, but you only mentioned things that harm someone besides the user. Cannabis hurts no one, not EVEN the user. However, going by your way of thinking, we should also prohibit guns, booze, smokes, big macs, cane sugar, and anything else that could be any kind of hazard to anyone. How about cars? They are, after all, the number one killer for military personnel.
>>It sounds like you like pot a lot more than this country. Am I right?
What?! Now that’s an insult, boy. I served over 8 years in the active army. I follow the constitution, and th ideals my founding fathers had for this country. I speak up against prohibition because it’s an immoral atrocity set forth against the American people. If we had it your way, miss Parks would still be in the back of the bus.
Okay, my rebuff is out of the way. Let’s try a different angel, shall we?
Amendment I (1791)
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Lots of religious people use this plant as a sacriment in their religious practices. This is true of Rastas, Genesists, Hindus, Muslims, and Christians. Further, people are permitted to kill themselves and damage society by drinking pitchers of beer and bottles of booze at the bar, then come home and beat the wife. But if I want to smoke a joint with a friend in the privacy of my home? No, that is not legally permitted.
Amendment IV (1791)
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
A plant falls under the definition above. So long as I am not using it to harm someone else’s physical being, property, or rights, then the gov’t has absolutely no business telling me I am not allowed to have it.
Amendment VIII (1791)
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Cannabis prohibition just plain ignores the entire 8th amendment. An example – mandatory minimums.
Amendment IX (1791)
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Federal drug laws in general blatantly disregard this one altogether. Right along with:
Amendment X (1791)
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Any questions?
Posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 4:48 pm
Luke, Luke, Luke,
Hey, I think I sound like someone out of Star Wars!?!?
Thanks for admitting you’ve smoked pot before. Now, your entire thought process may be suspect. You’re right, I haven’t. Who’s thought process you think is clearer right now?
Nobody’s had a psychosis in 30 years due to pot? Let’s discuss this further if you ever get out of yours. I guess you haven’t kept up with any science advances over the last few years. Hey, that’s alright. In your condition, I would understand. Since when does one smoke less pot with higher THC content. Have you never heard of diminishing returns??
Hey, I want you to go tell any person’s parents that was killed by a pothead that it’s never killed anyone. I wonder what type of reaction you’d get? Sounds like you’re OK with people getting killed for reasons of known malfeasance. What about when your in a psychotic state and you don’t know what you did. Is it still OK then?
How do you know what ideals the Founding Fathers had for this country? First you say you’re for prohibition for some things, then against it in others. Do you even know how many Founding Fathers there were?
The only thing I can say about your discertation on the Amendments, is don’t quit your day job. Oh, and one more thing. You didn’t include “unreasonable searches and seizures” in your rebuf. You remember what amendment that is, don’t you?
Sorry, I asked a question…
Posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 7:30 pm
DARE,
Do you think everything is government propaganda???
Posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Did you read and comprehend any of mine? Did you read all the links I provided? How many times have you smoked ‘pot’?
Posted on January 24th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
I now declare this thread done and to all you pro-pot posters out there all I can say is, “Grow up and get a life!” The author and I certainly have ours and we do not have the time to babysit all your whiny nonsense.
IOW, Kevin’s is the last comment out of courtesy to the author. I had determined that 1/23/2010 was the cut-off date anyway so if you posted anything on that day, it got deleted no matter how deathless your prose was. Post anything more and it will suffer the same fate. Continue to post and you will be declared a “spammer” and then EVERYTHING that you have ever posted here on TRC will automatically disappear once the “spammer” appellation gets associated with your avatar. Yes, our software is that mean and that thorough…
Oh and PS: Don’t keep squealing about how this site is called “The Reality Check” then tell us how unreal and naive we are about pot. Well, here’s a REALITY CHECK for ALL of you: In the here and now pot is ILLEGAL and you are putting yourself, your immediate family and your future in jeopardy by using it.
Posted on January 24th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
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